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	<title>Comments on: Reasons to be cheerful</title>
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	<link>http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/2009/10/01/reasons-to-be-cheerful/</link>
	<description>it&#039;s all around us</description>
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		<title>By: Doug Watt</title>
		<link>http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/2009/10/01/reasons-to-be-cheerful/comment-page-1/#comment-254</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Watt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/?p=270#comment-254</guid>
		<description>I read a proposal that is similar to the prize idea and addresses the issue that while successful R&amp;D can be disseminated relatively costlessly, this is costly to the developing firm as it loses the profits that accrue to the exclusive property right, and thus the incentive to do the R&amp;D in he first place.  

The idea is the the government purchases the rights to sucessful R&amp;D from the developing firm at value and then makes the R&amp;D available (presumably domestically) at no cost.  This way the firm is rewarded for their efforts, and the country can take advantage of the public good-ish nature of the information.  

Applied to publicly produced R&amp;D here in NZ, this would mean that successful R&amp;D would be available to firms at no cost as the government has already paid for it to be produced.  

If purchase was transitioned to firms from CRIs over time, then there could be some prize (the purchase price) that would require some judgement about the firm&#039;s contribution, or as WH suggests some first mover advantage afforded by it being most familiar with the technology.  Might be a moral hazard problem though.  

I think that the prize idea in isolation duplicates existing profit incentives unless there is an element of making the information / IP publicly available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read a proposal that is similar to the prize idea and addresses the issue that while successful R&amp;D can be disseminated relatively costlessly, this is costly to the developing firm as it loses the profits that accrue to the exclusive property right, and thus the incentive to do the R&amp;D in he first place.  </p>
<p>The idea is the the government purchases the rights to sucessful R&amp;D from the developing firm at value and then makes the R&amp;D available (presumably domestically) at no cost.  This way the firm is rewarded for their efforts, and the country can take advantage of the public good-ish nature of the information.  </p>
<p>Applied to publicly produced R&amp;D here in NZ, this would mean that successful R&amp;D would be available to firms at no cost as the government has already paid for it to be produced.  </p>
<p>If purchase was transitioned to firms from CRIs over time, then there could be some prize (the purchase price) that would require some judgement about the firm&#8217;s contribution, or as WH suggests some first mover advantage afforded by it being most familiar with the technology.  Might be a moral hazard problem though.  </p>
<p>I think that the prize idea in isolation duplicates existing profit incentives unless there is an element of making the information / IP publicly available.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/2009/10/01/reasons-to-be-cheerful/comment-page-1/#comment-234</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 01:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/?p=270#comment-234</guid>
		<description>Another example of a successful prize-based approach to R &amp; D is the recent Netflix Prize. The winning team was awarded US$1m for improving DVD recommendations to subscribers by over 10%.

Paying $1m for three years work by a team of seven experts is an excellent return on investment. Another benefit is that Netflix were able to attract participants with full time positions at other firms (AT&amp;T and Yahoo for example), who wouldn&#039;t have been able to leave their firms to work at Netflix in a full time role.

You can read more about it at http://www.slate.com/id/2229225/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another example of a successful prize-based approach to R &amp; D is the recent Netflix Prize. The winning team was awarded US$1m for improving DVD recommendations to subscribers by over 10%.</p>
<p>Paying $1m for three years work by a team of seven experts is an excellent return on investment. Another benefit is that Netflix were able to attract participants with full time positions at other firms (AT&amp;T and Yahoo for example), who wouldn&#8217;t have been able to leave their firms to work at Netflix in a full time role.</p>
<p>You can read more about it at <a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2229225/" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/id/2229225/</a></p>
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		<title>By: WH</title>
		<link>http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/2009/10/01/reasons-to-be-cheerful/comment-page-1/#comment-233</link>
		<dc:creator>WH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/?p=270#comment-233</guid>
		<description>Stick with it - if we can learn anything from the last 200 years (and Adam Smith) it is the story of technology and the market place which has transformed our lives and world enabling so many to have a living standard today that would make histories Kings and Queens look like paupers. 

I&#039;m interested in the IRL and resene paint story - it quietly passed me by. I&#039;ll have a look into it, thanks for pointing this out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stick with it &#8211; if we can learn anything from the last 200 years (and Adam Smith) it is the story of technology and the market place which has transformed our lives and world enabling so many to have a living standard today that would make histories Kings and Queens look like paupers. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m interested in the IRL and resene paint story &#8211; it quietly passed me by. I&#8217;ll have a look into it, thanks for pointing this out.</p>
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		<title>By: jps</title>
		<link>http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/2009/10/01/reasons-to-be-cheerful/comment-page-1/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>jps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/?p=270#comment-231</guid>
		<description>Thanks Doug and WH. Your thoughtful and constructive responses put my slightly flippant original post to shame. 

A quick cast around revealed that there was recently something of a nexus between them in the form of a kind of &quot;ideas competition&quot; run by IRL and won by Resene Paints. Basically IRL put up $1m of research time as the prize in a competition for the best idea that would use that resource (perhaps using a kind of Dragons&#039; Den selection).

The IRL concept looks good, but it is less radical than either of your ideas. You have inspired me to persist with this subject!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Doug and WH. Your thoughtful and constructive responses put my slightly flippant original post to shame. </p>
<p>A quick cast around revealed that there was recently something of a nexus between them in the form of a kind of &#8220;ideas competition&#8221; run by IRL and won by Resene Paints. Basically IRL put up $1m of research time as the prize in a competition for the best idea that would use that resource (perhaps using a kind of Dragons&#8217; Den selection).</p>
<p>The IRL concept looks good, but it is less radical than either of your ideas. You have inspired me to persist with this subject!</p>
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		<title>By: WH</title>
		<link>http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/2009/10/01/reasons-to-be-cheerful/comment-page-1/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>WH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 23:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/?p=270#comment-230</guid>
		<description>For R&amp;D, I&#039;d like to know if a way to transition more activity into commercialisation is to run competitions (e.g. Admirality chronometer competition and recent space flight competition). Whilst there is some difficulty in transferring technology (three year degree) in general knowledge transfer happens very rapidly in society. So to some extent the problem is not just capture by CRI&#039;s of knowledge but it is that the cost of producing a new piece of knowledge is very high  (fixed cost) but once produced it is easily replicable or acquirable at a very low marginal cost - look at generic drugs. This is not an argument for patent rights per se. 

What needs to be considered is what is the best mix of incentives/funding to generate new knowledge (old knowledge and current CRI model is sunk costs so we can ignore it). Competition based science funding may provide a mechanism to generate private sector R&amp;D (winner gets $xM ) and is normally directed to a commercial activity, spin-offs are generated by the number of teams entering examining multiple paths, each which may have there own spin-offs. 

May need to consider whether the winner gets commercialisation rights as well, or just gets the prize money and first mover advantage in subsequent commercialisation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For R&amp;D, I&#8217;d like to know if a way to transition more activity into commercialisation is to run competitions (e.g. Admirality chronometer competition and recent space flight competition). Whilst there is some difficulty in transferring technology (three year degree) in general knowledge transfer happens very rapidly in society. So to some extent the problem is not just capture by CRI&#8217;s of knowledge but it is that the cost of producing a new piece of knowledge is very high  (fixed cost) but once produced it is easily replicable or acquirable at a very low marginal cost &#8211; look at generic drugs. This is not an argument for patent rights per se. </p>
<p>What needs to be considered is what is the best mix of incentives/funding to generate new knowledge (old knowledge and current CRI model is sunk costs so we can ignore it). Competition based science funding may provide a mechanism to generate private sector R&amp;D (winner gets $xM ) and is normally directed to a commercial activity, spin-offs are generated by the number of teams entering examining multiple paths, each which may have there own spin-offs. </p>
<p>May need to consider whether the winner gets commercialisation rights as well, or just gets the prize money and first mover advantage in subsequent commercialisation.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Watt</title>
		<link>http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/2009/10/01/reasons-to-be-cheerful/comment-page-1/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Watt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.progressiveturmoil.com/?p=270#comment-229</guid>
		<description>NZ generates the vast majority of its science inside public institutions, it is publicly funded and CRI&#039;s retain the property rights for the R&amp;D.  They are then measured on their commercial performance, and are thus encouraged to commercialise the R&amp;D that they do.   Crucially, they are not encouraged to transfer this R&amp;D to the private sector except by selling it at value (as opposed to cost).  

However, the underlying public policy problem is that the PRIVATE sector will underprovide R&amp;D as it is unable to capture the full benefit from it.  The NZ approach doesn&#039;t address this problem as the private sector is still underproviding R&amp;D.  

This matters as it is difficult to transfer knowledge (it takes three years to get a degree for example) to the private sector for them to commercialise even if the incentives ran in that direction.  Which they do not because of the profit incentive that the CRIs have and their retention of the property rights.  

And I question whether any organisation can manage commercialisation across the breadth of markets that a large CRI has to manage.  Private sector companies that are reseach based such as Monsanto or aerospace companies tend to be very narrowly focused.  

My view is that there must be a transition to purchasing R&amp;D from the private sector.  The funding into CRIs is a massive scientist magnet.  The more capability that they build up, the less likely it is that private providers can compete.  So over time there needs to be a transfer of capability to, and purchase from, the private sector if we are to become a more technologically based economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NZ generates the vast majority of its science inside public institutions, it is publicly funded and CRI&#8217;s retain the property rights for the R&amp;D.  They are then measured on their commercial performance, and are thus encouraged to commercialise the R&amp;D that they do.   Crucially, they are not encouraged to transfer this R&amp;D to the private sector except by selling it at value (as opposed to cost).  </p>
<p>However, the underlying public policy problem is that the PRIVATE sector will underprovide R&amp;D as it is unable to capture the full benefit from it.  The NZ approach doesn&#8217;t address this problem as the private sector is still underproviding R&amp;D.  </p>
<p>This matters as it is difficult to transfer knowledge (it takes three years to get a degree for example) to the private sector for them to commercialise even if the incentives ran in that direction.  Which they do not because of the profit incentive that the CRIs have and their retention of the property rights.  </p>
<p>And I question whether any organisation can manage commercialisation across the breadth of markets that a large CRI has to manage.  Private sector companies that are reseach based such as Monsanto or aerospace companies tend to be very narrowly focused.  </p>
<p>My view is that there must be a transition to purchasing R&amp;D from the private sector.  The funding into CRIs is a massive scientist magnet.  The more capability that they build up, the less likely it is that private providers can compete.  So over time there needs to be a transfer of capability to, and purchase from, the private sector if we are to become a more technologically based economy.</p>
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